They are much less likely to see the country as an enemy than their parents
    • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
      10823·
      11 months ago

      What’s funny is I can’t tell if you’re talking about younger Americans refusing to hate China or older Americans chanting “China Bad!”

      • nekandro@lemmy.mlOP
        3512·
        11 months ago

        Both tbh

        American failures are being used to prop up Chinese successes. This is particularly true in urbanism discussions. China is by no means perfect and thinking that they are is harmful to progress.

            • freagle@lemmygrad.ml
              162·
              10 months ago

              The USA is less than 5% of the world’s population but has 24% of the world’s prisoners. Who is authoritarian?

              Prisoners in the USA produce over $11Bn worth of goods for for-profit corporations unde slave labor. Who has slave labor?

              The USA has camps that concentrate native Americans and South Americans into very small space where they die diseases of poverty and neglect. Who has concentration camps?

              The US Congress, upon revelations that the US military was spying on every single American citizen by recording every single phone conversation, text message, and all internet traffic, granted retroactive immunity to all the companies that helped the military do this. Who has an unfettered domestic spying apparatus?

              The USA produces almost nothing, yet, the per-capita carbon footprint of America is vastly larger than the per-capita carbon footprint of China. Who spews more carbon shamelessly?

              The purchasing power of the average Chinese person is higher than the purchasing power of the average American. In 70 years, China lifted 800 million people out of poverty. In those same 70 years, the US has gotten worse on life expectancy, infant mortality, and maternal mortality. Who exploits their people more?

              The USA sterilized black and brown women well into the 1970s under eugenics programs that they started well before the Third Reich.

              Everything you think you know about China has come from a wide array of news sources, all of which publish that exact same political line, and all the opposing viewpoints are crushed before they even make it to the editors. Forbes magazine is part of a media empire built by the fortune of the Forbes who built a financial empire funded by the Forbes who built a railroad empire funded by the Forbes that made his fortune selling opium to China when the British literally forced the Chinese to reverse their laws banning opium at gunpoint. Who controls their media?

              Your perspective is so thoroughly saturated with centuries of propaganda that you can’t even imagine the idea that it’s wrong. You literally don’t even know what would constitute evidence that you are wrong.

                • freagle@lemmygrad.ml
                  151·
                  10 months ago

                  Seriously? Are that uninformed? Literally everything I said is well documented as massively larger on the USA side than on the China side. The USA has always had the largest prison population on the planet per capita, even during the height of the GULAG system in the USSR. There really is no way China is worse. Do some basic research.

                • macabrett[they/them]@lemmy.ml
                  93·
                  10 months ago

                  Correct, from the information given in the post above, it seems like America is doing it all on a much larger scale.

              • HughJanus@lemmy.ml
                1122·
                10 months ago

                This is really just common knowledge at this point.

                E: looks like the CCP has even infiltrated the mods of this community.

                • macabrett[they/them]@lemmy.ml
                  195·
                  10 months ago

                  Its actually all sourced from one single guy who has stated it is his mission from God to bring down China.

                  It’s common knowledge because propaganda is incredibly effective.

                • Jack.@lemmy.mlM
                  131·
                  10 months ago

                  I get paid 100000000 Xi bucks every time I remove a post. Obviously Lemmy is the most important social media platform in the world that China needs to control at all costs. The communists have even banned brainrot racism on this subreddit.

                • Krause [he/him]@lemmygrad.ml
                  83·
                  10 months ago

                  E: looks like the CCP has even infiltrated the mods of this community.

                  lmao, “everyone who refuses to swallow US propaganda is part of the sissypee”

            • Trudge [Comrade]@lemmygrad.ml
              83·
              10 months ago

              The mere act of public protest is illegal

              What do you mean public protest is illegal. Public protests against the zero-covid policy forced the government to ease up on restrictions. I don’t think a single person was sentenced for that tantrum yet somehow China’s prohibiting protests?

              Their entire economy is built on the backs of people who are paid pennies per hour.

              Yeah Chinese laborers were paid pennies per hour by mostly Western capitalists (and increasingly internal Chinese capitalists). How is that the government’s fault? Chinese law mandates minimum wage increases so they are trying to do something about it and mostly succeeding.

              I don’t know why I bothered to even respond. You’re literally a CCP bot who makes these weird allegations against the CCP to make anti-China people look crazy. Be gone from lemmy and make your 50 cents somewhere else. I banish you.

              动态网自由门 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Free Tibet 六四天安門事件 The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 天安門大屠殺 The Tiananmen Square Massacre 反右派鬥爭 The Anti-Rightist Struggle 大躍進政策 The Great Leap Forward 文化大革命 The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution 人權 Human Rights 民運 Democratization 自由 Freedom 獨立 Independence 多黨制 Multi-party system 台灣 臺灣 Taiwan Formosa 中華民國 Republic of China 西藏 土伯特 唐古特 Tibet 達賴喇嘛 Dalai Lama 法輪功 Falun Dafa 新疆維吾爾自治區 The Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region 諾貝爾和平獎 Nobel Peace Prize 劉暁波 Liu Xiaobo 民主 言論 思想 反共 反革命 抗議 運動 騷亂 暴亂 騷擾 擾亂 抗暴 平反 維權 示威游行 李洪志 法輪大法 大法弟子 強制斷種 強制堕胎 民族淨化 人體實驗 肅清 胡耀邦 趙紫陽 魏京生 王丹 還政於民 和平演變 激流中國 北京之春 大紀元時報 九評論共産黨 獨裁 專制 壓制 統一 監視 鎮壓 迫害 侵略 掠奪 破壞 拷問 屠殺 活摘器官 誘拐 買賣人口 遊進 走私 毒品 賣淫 春畫 賭博 六合彩 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Winnie the Pooh 劉曉波动态网自由门

              Edit: Where are all the haters and doubters now? Never, ever underestimate my banishment magic again. It was specifically designed to counter CCP energy back in the 12th century by my landowning ancestors.

                • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
                  115·
                  10 months ago

                  And that “tantrum” was people literally having the doors of their homes welded shut so that they couldn’t leave.

                  That never happened. They welded some doors on apartment buildings so that only one entrance was available, and then screened that entrance for signs of fever. They did this because those doors did not have locking mechanisms, because usually having multiple entrances is a good thing. In the specific context of the pandemic, they wanted to track everyone.

                  And it worked. There’s a reason 1.1 million people died in the US and 121k died in China.

                  China’s Zero COVID policy was among the best in the world. Obviously they never accomplished Zero COVID, but they saved countless lives while we were marched to our deaths.

            • dubyakay@lemmy.ca
              1·
              10 months ago

              That’s why it costs significantly less to import virtually everything from the opposite side of the planet.

              This is not true. It’s so cheap to get the goods here because Canada and USA subsidizes the freight services from taxpayer money.

            • guitarsarereal@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
              109·
              10 months ago

              For the record, though, any nation-state that got big did all of that. That is literally what industrialization has more or less always looked like. The US used to run sweatshops and disappear/murder activists of any kind, especially the ones who pushed back against the pennies-an-hour sweatshops. It wasn’t until the 20th century that US courts even started reading the First Amendment to mean the government had an obligation to not fuck you up just for your political beliefs (see this title since that’s a larger historical argument than can fit on Lemmy).

              You don’t get social freedom and rights in an industrial society until it hits a very high point of development. This has been true of more or less anywhere.

              While we could argue China should have looked for a better way to develop, the United States also helped create an international system in the middle of the 20th century where the only real option was to aggressively industrialize in an even worse way than the US did, or just be subject to outright neocolonialism (and then develop your industry also in a bad way, also likely without rights, and then not have a rounded enough economy to do anything other than be exploited by richer countries), and then, when China decided to just take a heavy state-led path that employed capitalism and tools of standard industrial nation-building to set themselves up as a powerful capitalist nation-state, like they were “supposed” to, Western countries, the US in particular, bought in hard and financed everything they’re now recoiling against.

              China’s great sin, in this context (and while I’m being slightly sarcastic there, sure, the way they’re industrializing/running shit is bad), was choosing to use their enormous land-mass, resource base, and population to not just be on the very bottom. If America/the West had wanted to see the world industrialize better and more humanely, they should have tried at literally any point to help the world industrialize better and more humanely. At this point, it’s a little absurd for Westerners to complain a situation they created and financed extensively for decades.

                • guitarsarereal@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
                  85·
                  10 months ago

                  I don’t know that I justified it, just pointed out a basic historical truth about industrialization. With a shred of historical context it’s trivial to turn the conversation from “ew China evil” to “is it possible to industrialize without this shit?” which is a question anybody should have been asking from the very beginning.

                  At the end of the day, lambasting China for doing all the things industrializing nations have always done, without offering a concretely better, alternative path for industrialization, and simultaneously demanding they achieve a similar level of development as the West without doing anything the West did to get there, is honestly just pointless. The West imposed a competitive market system based on the preposterous violence of industrial production on the rest of the world, and are now going to be collectively hoisted by our own petards over the next few decades.

                  If we wanted them to industrialize without shit like ethnic homogenization/genocide/systematic exploitation of labor/everything else, we might have tried blazing a path to economic development that wasn’t based on those things.

            • YeetPics@mander.xyz
              212·
              10 months ago

              No no no, clearly you’re suffering under Western propaganda. In China there is zero crime and everyone gets a golden car on their 15th birthday. It’s true and If you disagree you’re a propaganda chicken. (/s)

    • _NoName_@lemmy.ml
      24·
      10 months ago

      Also good to remember that digital media can be just as propogandized if you interact with it at a base level. Shopping around for a wide breadth of sources and opinions should be viewed as standard requirement for forming a more accurate sense of world events.

      • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
        238·
        10 months ago

        Completely agree, and I think it’s really valuable to see how events are being covered in different parts of the world.

    • people_are_cute@lemmy.sdf.org
      13·
      10 months ago

      Social media dominantly uses algorithms that fine-tune user feeds according to what they think will lead to highest engagement and end up becoming personalized echo chambers. They provide the exact opposite of “a more diverse set of news”.

      • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
        68·
        10 months ago

        Even with the algorithms tuning people’s feeds the diversity of information and views online is very clearly far higher than it is in traditional media where editors decide what content is published, and how it’s framed. You’re also using a platform that doesn’t use any algorithms to mess with the feed to write all this.

  • sylver_dragon@lemmy.worldEnglish
    433·
    10 months ago

    This kinda looks like a bad poll. The wording seems to setup a bad choice of extremes. The respondent has to either choose “friendly” or “an enemy”. But the relationship between the US and China is a much more complex thing. The US and China are certainly in competition in a number of areas, economically and geopolitically. The induction of China to the WTO in 2001 impacted the US’s manufacturing sector negatively (see: https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-9/forty-years-of-falling-manufacturing-employment.htm). The US and China are at odds over the fate of Taiwan. But, in spite of all that, the US and China have deep trade links which benefit both countries greatly. And both countries are likely better off than they would be without the other. Global trade is generally positive for the economies involved, though global trade can also fuck individuals inside each economy, including driving wealth concentration and harming the economically disadvantaged and people whose skills don’t align well with the industries their country is focused on.

    Trying to boil US-China relations down to either Friendly or “Enemy” misses a lot of the nuance and may mean people aren’t giving an accurate picture of how they view China.

    • ahal@lemmy.ca
      156·
      10 months ago

      Those options seem fine for a poll imo. If you ask the same question to older demographics and more people pick “enemy”, then isn’t the conclusion in the headline valid?

      • Shazbot@lemmy.world
        81·
        10 months ago

        A lot of nuance will be missed without some gradation between “I <3 China” and “Down with Pooh!” For example, if we added “Slightly favorable”, “Neutral”, and “Slightly unfavorable” we would begin to see just how favorable younger generations are. Rather than presume there is a deep divide on trade policy, if two bars are almost equal, we may see they are largely neutral. Similarly we could see just how favorable their views of TikTok really are by looking at the spread between neutral to “I <3 China!”

      • _NoName_@lemmy.ml
        5·
        10 months ago

        The issue is that your reducing a multivariable spectra to a single binary. That kind of data compression destroys a massive amount of valuable data, and alot of nuance along with it.

      • madcaesar@lemmy.world
        94·
        10 months ago

        I know what you’re saying, but it’s still a shitty poll. I think people in the past were way looser with the word enemy. Everyone was an enemy, the Russians, communism, drugs, immigrants poverty… everything was a fucking enemy that needed a war.

        So, even though just as many people might distrust China the language has changed and we wouldn’t call them “enemy”.

        The Chinese government is authoritarian, evil and awful but I still wouldn’t call China an “enemy”. Because life isn’t black and white, and once you call somone an enemy you’ve shut off your brain and nothing good will come out of it.

    • library_napper@monyet.cc
      53·
      10 months ago

      I’m neither a friend nor an enemy to most people in the world.

      But when it comes to orgs, I’m an enemy of most od them, and definitely an enemy of every State.

  • COASTER1921@lemmy.ml
    371·
    10 months ago

    I visit China frequently for work and feel that the impression most older Americans have of China is incredibly out of touch. The traditional media portrayal of the country is definitely a part of this. Yes, it’s certainly an authoritarian state, but this doesn’t change whether the people are nice or what they want in life.

      • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
        263·
        10 months ago

        I think it’s probably better to simply say that “authoritarian” is a buzzword, though your implied argument that all states work by exerting authority on (at least some portion of) their population is certainly true. Anyone who uses a term like “authoritarian” rather than even a marginally more-descriptive negative term like, idk, “bureaucratic” or “state capitalist” (which gets misused, but I digress) is immediately demonstrating themselves to have untrustworthy judgement on the topic

        • IzyaKatzmann [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
          11·
          10 months ago

          maybe bring back totalitarian and use it against countries like the US? have a word that, like Huey P. Newton said regarding coining the term ‘pig’ for police, “highlights the contradiction”, in this case, between the selective usage of a word and it’s inherent meaning, none of which is understandable without contradictions from a prescriptive linguistic context

      • Omega_Haxors@lemmy.ml
        187·
        10 months ago

        Authoritarianism was a bullshit term invented by child-fucker libertarians to frame themselves as being the good guys.

          • cucumber_sandwich@lemmy.world
            28·
            10 months ago

            the state maintains that this is a moral and legitimate use of force: that it has the authority to do this.

            I don’t necessarily agree with “moral”. In western democracies laws and use of force doesn’t legitimize itself by a call to morality usually. Just using some kind of authority, doesn’t make a government authoritarian by any common definition of the word.

              • cucumber_sandwich@lemmy.world
                17·
                10 months ago

                It absolutely does imo, it legitimises itself through an appeal to an underlying moral framework.

                Yes, but very indirectly. We don’t have a “moral police”, but one that enforces laws which are, as you say, legitimized by the people as a sovereign.

                So you don’t see police stopping people on “moral grounds” in some vague interpretation.

    • Auzy@beehaw.org
      42·
      10 months ago

      I’ve been once for work. Didn’t have an issue with anyone there. I live in Australia now and a few of my friends are Chinese. In fact, I’ve had 2 Chinese really good friends / best friends

      None of them agree with the government at all

  • emergencyfood@sh.itjust.works
    371·
    10 months ago

    Isn’t it a general trend that younger people, on average, are less xenophobic / racist / bigoted than the previous generation? I also remember reading somewhere that younger Chinese people are friendlier to Japan, South Korea and the US than their parents.

  • loathsome dongeater@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
    36·
    11 months ago

    I cannot view the article but from the graph it seems “young” means those aged 18-44. They should have been more granular here because variations within this range would have been interesting to see as well.

  • nucleative@lemmy.worldEnglish
    323·
    10 months ago

    My company has an office in China and I’ve been there many many times.

    Chinese people are like all other people - same needs, same hopes and dreams, same fears, same drivers. In the city where our office is located, they are extremely hard working and want to ensure a better future for their family. Just like most American cities.

    Their city is very high tech, moreso than many American cities because they skipped a lot of legacy technology.

    They don’t necessarily subscribe to the same moral/value system as Americans, for example they often see copying each other’s ideas as a compliment whereas Americans see it as stealing. Kind of like - if it’s possible to copy, then it’s fair game - so don’t make it possible if you don’t want it copied. Perhaps that drives a different kind of innovation.

    Obviously there are many more cultural differences. But as a people, we are all essentially working with the same needs.

    All that being said I don’t appreciate the great firewall when I’mthere, the censorship, and the fear they have about discussing banned topics. I don’t appreciate the high-tech security cameras at every corner, or all the tracking of activities. The younger generations tolerate this for now because they are wealthier than their parents and told to cooperate, but that may not hold long term.