- cross-posted to:
- privacy@lemmy.ml
- technology@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- privacy@lemmy.ml
- technology@lemmy.ml
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“A German city”
Fuck is wrong these people? Why can’t anyone title their articles like a normal human being…
Because if they said the name of the city, nobody would need to click. 100% of the information you would glean would be in the title.
Just a city? How are these things legal anywhere else.
It is basically already illegal everywhere in Germany. German law has these things called “the right to your own image” and “the right to your own voice”. Basically if I want to film or photograph you, I have to ask for permission first, even and especially if you’re out in public. There are exceptions for if the person is incidental to the image (I photograph a building and you just happen to walk into the shot) but these don’t really apply when riding the bus. So using the glasses is already illegal. This is about wearing them.
Side note, this is also why Germany doesn’t have as many private security cameras. Because you need to place them in such a way that you don’t film the sidewalk, which is complicated. And it’s also why German media doesn’t use secret phone recordings. It’s always a “recollection from memory” re-enacted by a voice actor.
about the private security cameras, somehow amazon smart doorbells are still a thing though, and fairly common
And their installation is almost always illegal. But they stay up as long as nobody complains. “Normal” security cameras tend to be big and you can see where they point at. Doorbell cameras are small and easy to miss, so they fly under the radar
blind people are actually decently assisted by smart glasses. it’s just a shame they’re mostly used by perverts. there should be a state-sanctioned version only for blind people, with limited features, and an open weights AI model hosted somewhere in the same country with data not used for training and such.
I’m still not convinced.
Cameras have existed for decades, right? And it’s been legal in many places to take videos of whatever in public that whole time. But Y’know what’s not legal? Upskirts shots, down blouse shots, recording others in the bathroom, and more.
Why does the camera being on your face somehow make this form factor worse than a GoPro on your forehead, or a phone in your shirt pocket?
I quite seriously do not understand why every other previous hardware capable of recording was fine, but glasses are where we draw the line as perverted.
I personally say jack up the repercussions if you feel the need, but don’t ban a hammer just because it can be used to break a window.
it’s much more innocuous, to the point that many people can’t even tell you’re recording or wearing anything special that’s sending your image directly to facebook, especially if you drill out the notification light (which many perverts do do)
generally here in germany there’s a right to privacy if a person is your primary subject, even in public. you need their consent. there’s a difference between people being in the background and only incidentally and going up to people and “appreciating” them with a recording that facebook sees and also the whole world sees because you post it online as a way to signify your power over innocent women
But there are many cameras that do this already. Cameras that go in your button hole, pen cameras, even your cell phone, and most of them have no indication they are recording at all.
I’ve mentioned it before, but when I’m shopping for something for my spouse, i often FaceTime them and just put my phone with the camera facing outward in my shirt pocket, no one has ever given it a second look because it’s just a mundane thing to do, no one thinks it might be recording.
Thats why I feel like this is the tech equivalent to banning hammers. If someone wants to smash a window, they can use any number of implements. Banning a hammer does nothing but hurt people who have legitimate need of a hammer.
smart glasses are not hammers. aside from the disability aid angle, they are primarily used by perverts for perverted use cases, and facebook wants to double down on that angle with face recognition, so they know their audience.
if these were prescribed by a doctor I would react very differently
I’m staunchly against normalizing being recorded all the time in public
You can’t think of a single non-pervert, non-accessibility use for these?
Meta bullshit aside, because they obviously know exactly who they are catering to and it’s unfortunate. Recording lectures, AI (not LLM) identification of works of art at a museum, to the meter directions in areas with bad GPS data, recording a protest, recording police interactions, streaming hardware demos, and more. Anything you can currently legitimately record, but it’s hands free so you don’t need to sit there and frame the image.
Add in some lenses that can display instead of just correct your prescription? You’ve now moved past simply recording, and into augmented reality where information can be layered on top of your vision.
Just because you can’t think of a legit use doesn’t mean one doesn’t exist. You can use a wrench to drive a nail in, but the proper tool is still the hammer.
Edit: Hell, I’d love to be able to kick off a recording when playing with the younger kids in the family. They see a phone out in front of you recording and want you to show them things, but glasses are just glasses.
if violating privacy rights was so important then it should still not be done by facebook
Speaking as someone currently living in the US, around here you have zero right to privacy in public places, or places that can be seen from public places. Like, to a fucked up level. I could stand at the bottom of your driveway recording through your bedroom window, and it would be legal.
Now, do I think that is good? No. In my opinion it’s taken things to an extreme.
But I also don’t think I should have the power to run over to a tourist and demand they delete their photo because I happened to be in the background.
Is there a middle ground? Absolutely. But that middle ground is where I think the majority of smart glasses users will fall when they hit critical mass.
It’s already illegal to do… illegal things. Why are we making them “doubly illegal” in the hopes that somehow the bad guys are going to listen this time? This isn’t like guns where we are talking about regulating every camera, it’s like banning a desert eagle and calling it a job well done.
Edit: Last sentence is weird but I can’t think of how to reword it this late at night, I hope it makes some sense at least.
I had a debate about this the other day. I very much think these are creepy and look bad, but this kind of surveillance tech has existed for a long time, not to mention the prevalence of cellphones. I don’t understand what banning smart glasses accomplishes. There is plenty of creeper tech recording stuff out there. Just seems like poorly thought out legislation. What if I wear my cellphone on a lanyard, would that be illegal? Isn’t there surveillance tech on public transport already? What expectations of privacy do people have?
I think that any laws being made should focus on the broader concepts such as surveillance, privacy, consent, etc. This just seems like policy driven by people’s dislike of meta creeper glasses.
*Seems spy tech is already illegal in germany so this ban doesn’t matter much
From my perspective has to do with form factor more than anything else. These smart glasses at a glance are indistinguishable from regular glasses. A phone looks like a phone, so people know what’s up at a glance.
Wow you must have really good eyesigth. My pixel7pro claims 30x zoom. At that distance i cant really tell what you are doing.
You can already buy spy cameras. They are legal
Here’s how I understand the current legal situation in Germany (no guarantees this is correct) :
Spy cameras (that is, cameras that are concealed or not immediately apparent as such in some way) are illegal to use in public spaces. Smart glasses don’t fall under this category when they have a small indicator LED so that people can tell it’s recording.
Other camera tech existing is not a valid argument that these should. These devices and such technology should be fought and opposed at every corner. Rather have the privacy/surveillance debate kickstarted with a ban on one than risk having them ‘normalized within society’ such that a ban would be unenforceable. Edit: spelling
Tu quoque.
The thing is: I would get them too if I could afford it.
For the headphone stuff which is quite cool tech actually, I don’t like wearing in ear headphones and they basically work as headphones without going into your ears. The Ai stuff seems honestly creepy but I’m sure they legally can’t force you to use it in Europe and the camera stuff seems okay.
You can just buy the headphone part. Shockz open ear headphones . Or many other brands
I use shokz openrun pro 2 every day. Love them #notad
That’s great actually!
Yeah I do think there’s real utility to these and they’ll become more and more useful. These companies are working towards AR glasses that could completely replace phones.
Thats so stupid…
What exactly is stupid?
That it’s only one city that bans pervert glasses?
Using them to film others already is illegal by general privacy laws (hasn’t been tested in court yet though). This is about making it illegal to wear them.
Why would you want to put the onus of proving something illegal was done on the victims?
Banning pervert glasses solves the problem at the root. Plus it’s orders of magnitude more easy to prove someone wore them than proving something illegal was done with them.
MPAA - make perverts afraid again ;)Why would you want to put the onus of proving something illegal was done on the victims?
Because someone is innocent until proven guilty maybe ?
Banning pervert glasses solves the problem at the root. Plus it’s orders of magnitude more easy to prove someone wore them than proving something illegal was done with them.
Maybe, but this way you ban them also in situation where they could be usefull.
In a way you are punishing a technology instead of the people making bad use of it.
This! So much This! Next Step banning Cameras and Phones. Or like some Countries already have mandatory shuter sounds
A shuter sound does nothing now that both cameras and phones with a decent zoom
The filming is already illegal. Small Cameras exist. Phones with massives zooms exist. Smart glasses are not the Problem. Espacially as ther probably will be a generall ban meaning smartglases without camera will be banned too
