Linux needs to grow. Stop telling people it’s ‘tech-y’ or acting like you’re more advanced for using it, you are scaring away people. Linux Mint can be used by a senile person perfectly.
Explain shortly the benefits, ‘faster, more secure, easier to use, main choices of professionals and free’. Ask questions that let you know if they need to dual boot, ‘do you use Adobe, anti-cheat games, or Microsoft Office’, ‘how new is your computer’, ‘do you use a Mac’.
And most importantly, offer to help them install.
They don’t understand the concept of distros, just suggest Linux Mint LTS Cinnamon unless they’re curious.
That’s it, spread Linux to as many people as possible. The larger the marketshare, the better support we ALL get. We can fight enshittification. Take the time to spread it but don’t force it on anyone.
AND STOP SCARING PEOPLE AWAY. Linux has no advertising money, it’s up to us.
Offer family members or friends your help or copy and paste the below
how to install linux: 1) copy down your windows product key 2) backup your files to a harddrive 3) install the linux mint cinnamon iso from the linux mint website 4) use etcher (download from its website) to put the iso on a usb flash drive 5) go into bios 6) boot from the usb 7) erase the storage and install 8) press update all in the update manager 9) celebrate. it takes 15 minutes.
edit: LET ME RE-STATE, DO NOT FORCE IT ON ANYONE.
and if someone is at the level of ignorance (not in a derogatory fashion) that they dont know what a file even is genuinely dont bother unless theyre your parents cause youll be tech support for their ‘how do i install the internet’ questions.
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shared XKCD about experts overestimating laypeople’s knowledge of their field
Double clicking it opens a weird folder.
I just put the ISO on my external drive and now my backup is gone what happened?Proceeds to assume laypeople have backups
haha right! Most people don’t even understand that MacOS is a thing on it’s own, they just think it’s a Mac. They have never needed to make the distinction between software and hardware. If you were to suggest they “change to Linux”, they won’t have any frame of reference for what this means. Heck, most people still call Android phones “droids”, or if they know anything, “Pixels” and “Samsungs” without knowing that “Android” is it’s own thing. Macbooks have USB-C now but few users know that you can use an Apple charger to charge anything USB-C. It’s like back in the 90s you would frequently hear people not making the distinction between “monitor” and “computer”.
Don’t get me wrong, I think consumer education is the only plausible way out of this proprietary mess, but the further society moves away from PCs having discrete interchangeable components the harder concepts like “operating system” are going to be to understand for anyone not specifically seeking out that knowledge.
Absolutely right. And it blows my mind that at this point people are getting less technologically literate, not more. Job security for us IT guys, I guess.
It’s not all that bad. I’m sure there are as many youth keen to learn computers and they have easy access to all the tools they need to develop knowledge and skill
It’s just as we have become more knowledgeable, more capable, the difference between us and the normal people seems incredible.
But put us in an area needing different specialist knowledge and we’ll struggle like they do with computer technical stuff
We speak jargon. They don’t know the words, or if they do they use them wrong.
Also it sucks for us in IT work; when you are in an agile team and the manager two levels up doesn’t understand agile they do things like break up high performing teams (mine had been a team for four years - from the day the organisation decided to test agile) to share the people around so they can teach the others how to be high performing
Had they read anything about agile, they would know that longevity of a team is a good predictor for performances — but they wouldn’t read about agile, it’s an IT technical thing
I mean, two whole generations are growing up without using regular computers until they enter the workforce or go to college. When I was in highschool, I was told that the generations after me would mostly be more technologically literate than anyone was at the time, but with smartphones and ChromeOS it seems that the time to learn how to use a personal computer now begins far later than it was for us millennials.
There are so many basic things about using a computer that it is no longer to expect a high school graduate to know, such as how to use a printer (or what a printer even is), how to reboot a computer, what a browser is, etc.
i was called into one office where they bought a backup external, like someone told them to previously. they took it out of the box, set it on the tower. and i guess, that was that. the magic box would now have backups of everything they did.
five years later, i got to tell them that there’s nothing on it.
the pc was never configured to run a backup of any kind. hell, the drive was never connected to the pc.
so no backups of their documents, their spreadsheets, their mailing lists, their email, or their quickbooks (that part, they at least ran manual backups of, when prompted by the software, to a flash drive).
I bet that company hires lawyers for law technical stuff.
it’s a church office, jesus does the legal shit… and apparently the pc backups, too.
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step 2 of this process involves making a backup. whether they understand how they did so or not.
I work in a decent-sized computer repair shop and this is a very accurate representation of what the average user knows.
Just in case anyone thinks this is over the top.
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Don’t support anything Google touches.
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reminds me of [email protected]
gosh
Honestly these people shouldn’t use computers if they can’t be bothered to learn the bare minimum ngl.
Or we need to improve IT classes and courses
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Honestly these people shouldn’t use computers if they can’t be bothered to learn the bare minimum ngl.
You need a license to drive a car, and to get the license you have to pass a test to prove you know the basics of motor vehicle operation and the “rules of the road.”
I really don’t see why we couldn’t/shouldn’t apply the same logic to computer hardware.
I really don’t see why we couldn’t/shouldn’t apply the same logic to computer hardware.
Uh because innocent people don’t die if a user doesn’t know how to install an OS?
In some contexts having people who don’t know what files are, what a folder is, and some other basics, do lead to people dying or lots of damage done.
Of course you’d expect people in these contexts to be trained but that’s not always the case.
Also having no idea what a file is and not knowing the bare minimum of how a computer works in this day and age is unacceptable. It should be taught properly in schools (instead of teaching some very specific stuff everyone will forget, like what a bus is, and then jump to what excel is and how to use it, like they did in my IT class back in high school)
Don’t get me wrong I’m very pro-tech literacy and education, especially with the tablet generation users that are becoming more abstracted from the system plumbing… but requiring licenses to use a computer?? Lol. If it’s that important to the job, employer should provide training just like any other piece of equipment.
I’m not going to expect doctors to know how to get into a bios or cleanup a corrupted file system, they specialized in human biology - keep them focused on that, and I’ll handle the OS management.
I don’t expect anyone to know how to install an OS either, that’s not the basics. But I do expect everyone to know what a file is, what file extensions are and what a directory/folder is.
You realise there are people that are over 80 that only have a computer so they can check pictures of their grandkids on Facebook and that’s it?
yes, I do, but that’s not representative of the majority of the population.
So it’s unacceptable for them to have a computer?
Tell that to the guy whose son was so influenced by grifters online that he cut off his dad’s head.
Oh wait you can’t because he’s dead.
No, using the internet while being an idiot has literally lead to murder.
Should require a license to go outside or read a book too, they might meet a dangerous group of people or read something that influences them.
He just needed the TV to turn this way, should were require a college degree to be allowed to have a TV?
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If you’re actually expecting people to transition without asking for help on a regular basis, you don’t know people.
You just made yourself their IT guy for life.
And I think there isn’t a good solution to this. Ideally you would enable people to make good choices for themselves, know how to handle the tools they use…
Interesingly enough they come to me to fix their printer and antivirus anyways, and I have no idea of what I’m doing since I haven’t used Windows in like 15 years, except for updating my GPS and filling out time-sheets for work and stuff like that. And in the meantime Microsoft switches things around every few years and bolts on a new interface onto their office suite and then moves it to the cloud. I don’t think it would make any difference if my relatives were using Linux in the first place. They would still need to ask someone to fix their printer drivers and handle big version upgrades. And if it was me at the other end, it would be way more convenient to me to help them.
I stopped advertising Linux to people who didn’t ask me to… I’ll tell them I use different things on my computer and why this software is way better. If they pick up on that and want to try out of their own motivation, I’ll gladly help.
This
No, it’s better to be honest. The average user isn’t ready for Linux, because Linux is not ready for the average user. I’d never try and get someone to use it if they’re not already interested. I hate that it is this way, but it is. Linux is only really for people who already want to use it. Because if you’re not interested in using it, you’re not going to put forth the time investment to gain the benefits from it. No matter what angle I look at it from Linux is not for the average person.
Your second paragraph says it all. Find out if the user needs to dual boot? The answer is obviously “No” because no matter what they’re using the computer for, Linux is unneeded for them, since they have Windows. There are tangible benefits to using Windows, since it runs their software, meanwhile, you failed to list any real benefits to using Linux for the average user. It’s faster? No, not really, since they’ll be learning how to use it, and even ignoring that, it’s not so much faster that they’ll perceive it anyway. It’s more secure? Not really, Windows is the better choice for the average user in that respect, since it’ll automatically force them to restart the machine every week to install security updates. Main choice of professionals? That’s not entirely true, and even if it were, it’s not relevant, the average user is not a professional. And for anyone who already owns a computer already running Windows, Windows was ‘free’ too.
The only time to have this discussion is if the user is having a PC built, and then the answer is also “No” to Linux, because they’re going to buy Windows anyway, since it’s better for gaming, and that’s the primary reason for someone to build a PC, unless they’re doing a specialized task like video editing, and if they are invested enough into the task to want a PC just for that, they have specialized software that almost always runs only on Windows, and even if it were able to run on either, it’s not my place to alter their workflow.
The real elitist attitude is thinking people need to use Linux in the first place. For me and (maybe) you, it might get the job done, but for my family and friends. It’s better that they use what they’re comfortable with. The main point of a computer is to accomplish tasks, and giving them Linux is a hindrance to that.
Linux is great, but it’s not for everyone, and it may never be.
Thank you. Windows is plain better for the average user, and that’s a hard pill for many to swallow. Heck, I force myself to use Linux time to time but I always go back because the Affinity suite and my fingerprint reader only works on Windows. I have no reason to stay on Linux, it’s too limited outside niche cases.
That’s plain wrong. That’s not honest, that’s elitist at best.
No user ever installed windows. So the whole installation and driver thing is a dishonest question.
Even for gaming on a custom PC, just take an amd card and games on steam, it’ll run smoothly.
Browsing Internet and desktop? Works fine on Linux. Fuck office, you don’t need it.
If you need a computer for a specific software, that’s a different matter. But presenting it like everyone is concerned is dishonest.
The security paragraph is complete nonsense. And obnoxiously rebooting is a major hindrance for most people, and it’s not avoidable without the professional licence.
It’s not 2010 anymore.
“Fuck office, you don’t need it.” <- the audacity to assume someone doesn’t need something.
No one needs office unless the company forces it.
Stop being elitist.
Use linux mint.
Why linux mint?
It’s like ubuntu but no snaps.
What’s ubuntu?
It’s like debian but not as stable. You’ll get more recent apps in ubuntu, test them, and when they are tested companies use the apps in debian.
Ok, What are snaps?
You can install packages with snap, but it’s proprietary.
Ok, that’s bad?
Yes. Foss apps are great and better than proprietary garbage.
Ok, foss good, proprietary garbage.
Why debian and not fedora?
Because all apps are build for it.
So it’s like aur?
No. Aur is made by users for users. Builds on debian are mostly official.
So the package manager is better on debian?
Yes, kind of.
I heard of distrobox. I could use the package manager on any distro.
Yes, but it’s easier at the beginning to stick to one distro and package manager to get used to it.
Why not arch?
It’s too unstable.
Ok, no arch distro. I heard manjaro is good.
No, it holds back packages for no reason.
Ok. What about fedora?
It doesn’t have as many packages.
But it has the copr, aren’t there a lot of apps?
Yes, but it’s like aur, it’s build by users. Debian builds are good, stable and widely used.
Ok. What about nix? I heared it’s the new arch and there are even more packages.
Yes, but It’s not for newbies.
What is an immutable system? I heared that’s the next big thing.
It’s like android an image based operating system where you can’t brick your system by accident with rm -rf /
What’s rm -rf /?
Just test it in a terminal, it’s fun.
How can I play games?
You install steam.
Do I have to configure anything?
Hopefully not
Can I only use linux mint?
No you can use any distro, they are all linux. You can choose whatever you want. Just choose mint.
Why mint?
It has no snaps.
What do I use instead?
Flatpaks
If I use flatpaks, why does the package manager matter so much?
Because not all apps are available as flatpacks, especially command line tools. Snaps has cli but it’s proprietary.
Can’t I just use any distro and use a debian distrobox for those packages I need from debian?
Yes, use linux mint, it’s easy to use.
Do I actually need all those packages? I only use word and steam.
No, probably not.
Why not using ubuntu and install flatpaks?
Because ubuntu sucks.
But isn’t mint based on ubuntu?
Yes, but it has no snaps.
Can’t I just use debian?
Yes, but it doesn’t have the latest packages.
How do I install word?
You can’t. You can use the online version.
That’s a lot to understand. Can’t I just windows? I only open steam anyway.
Yes, but it’s proprietary.
Steam is also proprietary.
Yes, but you xan play games with it on linux.
But if steam is proprietary, and windows is proprietary, and I mainly use steam anyway, does it even matter?
What’s a DE?
Linux mint uses cinnamon, it’s cool!
I saw some KDE screemshots. It looks cool and everyone talks about it. There’s a big release coming in a few weeks. how do I install it?
You usually don’t mix DEs unless you know what you do.
I don’t.
Then don’t mix it.
But I want to use KDE. Which distro should I use? Kubuntu?
No, it uses snaps like ubuntu.
…
No it doesn’t. If you don’t care and just want anything that runs Steam, don’t bother. Just pick anything, it runs fine on most Linux distributions, Windows and probably Mac. You’re fine with tossing a coin. I’d choose Linux in that case since it’s cheaper.
A proper conversation would be like this:
What shall I use?
Depends… What do you want to do with your computer?
Play games with Steam.
Alright, then use XY. Wanna know more?
No.
Fine.
What’s rm -rf /?
Just` test it in a terminal, it’s fun.
💀
most ‘newbies’, who just need something to launch a browser these days, wouldn’t go past line 2.
Going for that “who’s on first base” vibe?
Thanks for the laugh 😀
Someone prefers mint.
I don’t often suggest Linux to friends or family, because I don’t want to be on the hook for tech support. I also don’t want to be the blamed party when they inevitably give up, and be obligated to reinstall their old OS.
Linux is growing naturally. There’s little reason to suggest it to someone who won’t benefit from it.
EDIT: I want to clarify, I appreciate the spirit of your post. But I also want to call out, that it just isn’t the best choice for most people.
fair enough
casually mentions how i run linux. other person. that’s cool. continues with windows.
if they don’t want to hear it, they don’t want to hear it. but if they do, they know they can ask.
No. Make them use it. Force them. Hit them if you need to. Make sure they do an Arch install without any scripts and don’t help them
Look at them harshly thoughout the whole interaction and let them know they are less then us.
I went through Arch install and I’m doing just fine, thanks. They just moved me out of the ICU to a new unit called “Palliative”. It’s quite comfy.
Welcome to the club. You’re a real Linux user now.
I’m a Linux user and fan for a lot of years now. Software engineer by profession.
It’s not ready for widespread adoption to the less tech-savvy masses.
It misses some functionality that is really hard to get right but is absolutely expected to get right. For example: graceful suspend and wakeups. It happens so often even to me that I close my Linux laptop for the day, next morning open it up to a bunch of warnings and error messages about Bluetooth adapters or whatever the device of the day that wants to malfunction is that prevents a sound S2 S3 sleep.
I don’t get freaked out about it. But grandma sure would. And yet my 10 year old MacBook Pro gets it right every single fucking time; completely flawlessly. This is the bar of usability that Linux has to achieve for widespread adoption as a true, polished, personal computing experience.
edit: meant S3 sleep.
It also doesn’t help that doing anything in Linux requires weird little guys like “mv” or “mkdir” or “chmod 777”
I don’t think anyone who isn’t already curious about Linux should install Linux. And I sure as hell am not going to try to convince anyone and be blamed for not being able to use adobe products.
I would make an exception for the type of people who only use their computer for the internet. People like my parents, who do about 98% of everything through a browser, and occasionally write a letter.
For someone like them, Linux is ideal. Just explain that Firefox is the internet and rename the office shortcuts, and they wouldn’t notice a difference.
thats a huge portion of people too
But please don’t give unsolicited advice about Linux. No one wants that.
Do you have a few minutes to talk about our Lord and Saviour, Linus Torvalds?
and RMS. And we need a third person to get to the holy trinity. Greg Kroah-Hartman? Ken Thompson and Dennis Ritchie? Bjarne Stroustrup? We could choose Lennart Poettering, that’d certainly annoy a few people. Maybe we need some more apostles and additional people since all of that is based on the work of so many different people.
thats where the ‘dont force it on anyone’ comes from
Things are fine until one day they need to plug this random peripheral/accessory and it’s not plug and play. Then they hate you forever
I generally disagree with trying to get people to use linux now. Im seeing a lot of people leaving linux and getting turned off by the idea of it.
Aside from outliers like Android and Chrome OS, I do not think Linux is in a suitable state for non-techy people to use unfortunately. I’m really hoping PopOS will be able to change things in the future, however as it stands I really don’t think it is ready for prime time.
Users expect things that kind of just work and Linux Mint has not been that experience for me. I found the app store to be kind of annoying to use and complicated. The settings app were not very well laid out and miscellaneous stuff like that, which kind of ruins the experience.
Meanwhile, there are just general Linux issues to accessibility becoming worse and worse instead of better. You have issues like we still don’t have a distro with good wine integration so people can use the apps they actually need to use. The apps that we do have natively, are oftentimes relatively… janky. If you’re comparing Libreoffice to Microsoft Office, the experience is just not the same, even if the technical capability is.
EDIT: I want Linux to succeed just as much as anybody else. In fact, I think I might want it to succeed more because I absolutely detest maintaining Windows installs. However, lying about the state of Linux and being dishonest about it is not the way to go about this. We should be honest with all of its issues, so to speak. So that way we can strive to make them better instead of ignoring them and sweeping them under the rug for the people we tell to trial and to find instead.
If I might ask: Who is leaving and what for? Mac? I’ve seen some developers buy the newer M2/M3 Macbooks. I think they’re nice. But not nice enough to pay the price for one with a decent amount of RAM and storage myself.
Third best enterprise OS.
Well, it’s better than Windows, so besides Linux what is better than macOS?
Not in an enterprise setting, so patato potato
Depends on the enterprise.
i have a client in need of a new laptop to replace an aging windows one with multiple issues. a $280 sale of a 12th gen 1215u with 8gb and 250gb ssd staring at him, and way more than they ‘need’. but his wife, a k12 teacher, will insist upon a macbook when she retires and has to give hers back to the district. so they’re looking at about $1000 instead, minimum.
Mmh, everyone is allowed to make stupid choices. I’ve told multiple people that drawers in the kitchen and in your wardrobe are awesome. That you don’t need the Adobe suite to cut your 1.5 travel videos a year, let alone a $1200 phone… Stop using software when we have way better alternatives that are also easier to use. Many people don’t listen. And they’re entitled not to listen to me, it’s their money, life and choices.
Is $1900 too much for a blazing fast laptop with 1TB/24GB that will have support for 10 years?
I’m sorry, I really don’t get all the innuendo here. Are we talking about a Macbook or another laptop here that gets support for 10 years? I like to pay about 1200€ for a laptop and it usually lasts me like 6-8 years. But 1 TB SSD is a bit short of what I’m comfortable with. If I configure a M3 Macbook with 24GB of RAM and 2TB of SSD it comes down to 3149€. That is about $3.400 after taxes. Another laptop I really like is the frame.work laptop. The AMD Ryzen 7 should be plenty fast. The price including 32GB of memory and 2 TB of storage is 1918€ or about $2.070 after taxes. And in the years to come you can fix it and upgrade it however you like. So your $1900 sounds about right if it’s blazing fast and lasts you 10 years.
I have had multiple friends I’ve gotten to try linux for a prolonged period of time leave back to windows or mac, (In one case ChromeOS). There are a variety of issues, needing to constantly wrangle to get games working even with lutris and steam, Various accessibility issues, Microsoft office as I mentioned etc.
the general consensus was “it often did most of what they needed it to do, but not all, and often times not well enough”
This, don’t get why people are so set on convincing the world to switch.
Userbase is big enough that support is pretty good, we’ve all got what we want out of it, why try to push it on people who don’t care about technology
People making OS their religion and following one of the Penguin Creeds:
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, installing Linux in the name of Torvalds, Stallman, and the Holy Kernel: Teaching them to use only FOSS software. Amen.
Personally, I want everyone to switch. I help my family all the time with their computing needs. I myself would greatly prefer them running linux all the time, but needs are needs.
Headline: “Person new to and overly excited about Thing, starts telling other more experienced people about how to approach and think about Thing”
:(
This is the attitude the OP is talking about.
Being snobbish helps noone, we’ve all been noobs at some point.
Linux is the most widely deployed OS on the planet. I’m not sure OP is actually talking about aside from desktop usage. It’s in your headphones, home appliances, routers, competing OS’s, datacenters that run the world…what do you imagine is missed?
I wouldn’t do this since I don’t want to be even more tech support for people I know.
My mom has used windows for as long as she has had a computer and still doesn’t know what the start button or the windows key are.
I’ve explained it millions of times.
I’m not signing up for more of that than we need.
Irony: being elitist about the most egalitarian operating system
I’ve “refreshed” a couple coworker’s old PCs with Linux Mint XFCE. It’s actually gone pretty well.
“All I do is browse the net.”
Okay, I’ll put the browser right on the desktop, so you don’t have to search for it. Be patient, it’s an older computer. But at least this works, unlike Windows.
And I haven’t really heard too much from them. Internet works. Basic needs fulfilled.
I feel like someone who knows a bit more could be more of a pain. But for very basic computing needs like paying your bills and surfing IG, it can go well.
