If your customer has write access to a production system, I’m not sure they’re the most irresponsible here.
I mean Personally if I was a client I would want access to the system/service I was paying for directly
But I guess I’m alsotech literate enough to know not to fuck with it
Code? No.
Physical equipment? YesCustomer wasn’t happy when we billed them list price for a Cisco switch their MSP tossed out.
My dumb arse used to do this to win 98/me when I was a student. “Optimising” everything and deleting anything I would never use, trying to squeeze every mb out of my limited 2gb disk space but the damn thing was so unreliable I was constantly reinstalling windows.
After one reload, I finished late at night and just left it alone, forgetting to perform all my “power user customisation” until I remembered a week later when it suddenly dawned on me that it was running fast AND stable - I hadn’t had a single crash that week. As a final test, I applied all my “optimisations” again and “oh, look! It’s crashing constantly again”. I was a slow learner and turns out I don’t know better than the people that built the system!
I always think of this when I see threads about win7 - 11 being unstable, because it just isn’t. As you dig through the thread, the op reveals more - they’ve chopped out all sorts of system components with registry hacks and third party tools or blocked updates and then bitch about windows being garbage - don’t get me wrong, they simultaneously make it better and worse with every release so I sympathize why people try chopping out edge, copilot etc - but just don’t.
Disabling services and uninstalling functions the non-hacky way ‘should’ be fine (and likely reversable) but if someone wants to bare-bone their OS or be data gathering-free, they’d be better off learning Linux.
Not quite this, but I did have a validation team that didn’t know when to quit.
The project was a Windows service, and they would be constantly opening bugs saying “program crashes when we deleted xxxxx.dll”
Like… Yeah. If you delete necessary libraries from the installation directory, the program won’t run correctly.
That should be elementary computer literacy: if you don’t know what the file does, then don’t delete it.
“I didn’t know what it was, how was I supposed to know not to delete it?”
“Oh I fixed your code because you did it wrong”
Later:
“Hey the application no longer compiles, I re-wrote a huge chunk of your code and now I don’t know whats wrong”
“Here are my emergency ‘I broke production’ rates, the bill will be in the mail.”
Unironically, yes.
I worked for a client where we had successfully delivered a working FOH site and booking/order system. A new head of marketing joined, and from the first meeting this guy proclaimed himself as a “tech lead” and evangelist. He wanted “full FTP access” within the first 5 minutes of our meeting. We told him we didn’t use FTP as everything was deployed via our CI pipeline, and he kicked off.
After some crisis meetings, he said he wanted to change the entire CMS to be HTML boxes, threatening to ditch us if we didn’t give him what we wanted. They were paying lots for this change, so in the end we obliged. He proceeded to delete basically everything we’d built, and tried to replicate all functionality using a A/B injection tool and a HTML field. Clients were pissed, because none of it worked, and they lost some serious money from it.
In the end, we rolled back and said “fuck it, full git access, you’re a dev now”, and at midnight he brought the site down because he decided to rewrite some db transaction logic to write data to another store. To him, transactions were “outdated tech”, and he tried to clean it up by just performing destructive changes on their own…
In the end, they ditched us, and we were glad to be gone (they bought out their own contract). Sadly, he got his way, changed his title to “lead tech director”, hired a team, and their site went from fairly slick to looking like something from Geocities. That company no longer exists, and sadly, I can’t remember his name so I can’t see where he failed upwards to.
stuff like this makes me so pissed that it’s so difficult to get into leadership positions for most people, those with connections and money are free to fail upwards and ruin things, but the average joe can be the genius of our age and be stuck working at starbucks for minimum wage their entire life…
It’s also frustrating that a lot of baffling corporate decisions aren’t even excusable as being for profit, it’s just some executive being a moron and no one stops them! If it was for profit i could at least feel nihilistic about it, but this is just corporations actively choosing to continue letting things happen that benefit no-one.
Reality is a team sport, to some people. All they know is loyalty to hierarchy. If you’re below them and disagree, not only are you wrong, you are personally threatening them. Reasons do not exist.
I always think about stuff like this whenever libertarians talk about how much more efficient corporations are than government. I’m like, “Have you ever worked for a corporation?” Organizations are just huge dumpster fires in general, because they’re all run by humans.
They’re not dumpster fires because they’re run by humans, but because they’re run by unaccountable hierarchies. Humans are perfectly capable of running a sustainable and efficient operation if we only stopped to consider how better to make decisions collectively.
Can you give some examples of well run organizations and the techniques they use? I legitimately want to know if it’s possible to do better than most of our current governments, companies, and societies in general. This world is a mess and I have half given up on it ever getting better.
Wikipedia - While the Wikimedia Foundation itself is hierarchical, it manages Wikipedia through a process of community-led governance. Every article is maintained by a community of volunteers who engage in open debate to decide on content moderation policies. Wikipedia remains one of the few popular websites to avoid the recent internet enshittification.
Food Not Bombs - An activist organization that serves free food. FNB has no central organizing body, instead operating as a loose-knit group of independent collectives who voluntarily cooperate and exchange information and resources with one another. One specific collective, “A Food Not Bombs Menu,” has taken to coordinating the global activities of FNB collectives and helping people start new ones, but has no power over any others.
IWW - The Industrial Workers of the World, while hierarchical, ensures a hierarchy that is accountable to its’ rank and file members by means of a robust democratic process, as well as the right of any member union or individual member to leave at anytime and go it alone.
There are many more, but it’s late and it took me a while to pick out what I think are good representative examples of different ways an organization can be run well.
My hourly rate for tutoring is actually about 50% higher than my hourly rate for on call support which is about 100% higher than my hourly rate for work.
I’m trying to afford groceries here, It’s not 90 days payable It’s pay-per-play. I’m tired of trying to finance an inhaler while the boss’s favorite child can’t decide on a font color and thinks that 5 minute phone calls at 7:30 on a friday are free.
Those prices sound 30% too low at the minimum. You definitely deserve more.
in fact proper market economy dictates that you should charge precisely as much as you can possibly get away with, OP is effectively doing charity for rich people.
I think my dumbest customer story isn’t programming-related but still related to computers. I worked in a small computer repair shop about 3000 years ago, and one day a customer comes in with their family computer that’s “not working.” It turned out to be full of viruses and malware, and when we started working on it it turned out this was due to somebody visiting shady porn sites and clicking on download buttons left and right. I explain the situation to her and then recommend steps on how to avoid this happening in the future, so how to browse safely, antivirus software etc. She feelt a bit embarrassed and says that it’s her son, and that she’ll give him a talking-to.
A few weeks later the same customer comes back with the family computer and this time she’s visibly annoyed, and curiously she’s brought along the keyboard, mouse and monitor. The computer’s got viruses again, and it’s my fault. Why? Because she’d had a talk with her son who had then sworn up and down that he’ll mend his filthy ways. When new viruses cropped up, his explanation was that obviously they’re in the keyboard, mouse and monitor too, and since they hadn’t been in the shop they were still infected and we were just too incompetent to have known this. Naturally she believed her son over my word, and started demanding that we remove the viruses from all the peripherals. I tried for a very long time to explain that it’s just not possible (this was a time when PS/2 connectors were still pretty common and that’s what they had so it wasn’t even theoretically possible), but she wouldn’t budge because her son was a computer whiz (he wasn’t) and a Good Boy™ and would never lie, so clearly I was either incompetent or lying.
Finally I just relented and said “OK you got me, it’s possible your viruses came from the peripherals but I just didn’t want to mention it because removing them is so time-consuming and difficult”. I took all their hardware in and had it unfucked in pretty short order, and I looked at the browser history to make sure that it really was a reinfection via the web, which it was (I remember Pamela Anderson featuring in a lot of the searches, which we techs giggled at.)
I kept their hardware at the shop for a couple of weeks; it’s a tricky and demanding job to remove viruses from mouses, keyboards and monitors, remember? When writing the bill I charged her double the time I actually put in – she didn’t want to pay at all because she felt it was our mistake but at that point my boss, who was a formidable lady, practically put her boot up the customer’s ass and made her cough up the money.
She left in a huff never to be seen again, thank the gods.
This reminds me of the time in HS when a letter broke off my laptop keyboard and my parents insisted on taking it to the shop for a repair. Turns out they really just wanted the shop to turn over my search history and chat logs. I already knew my parents were nosy so I would always delete it anyway.
One day I came home from school and they said the shop fixed the keyboard but just needed my password to test it and do updates. I said no it’s fine if he can type in anything into the password then obviously the keyboard works, and I already did the updates regularly.
They literally had to beg me for the password and they were like pleasssse just give the shop the password so they can finish their checklist and you can get your computer back, and I was like fine if it’s the only way I’m getting it back. Of course nothing came of it because there was nothing to discover.
Then my parents got the computer back but kept it in the trunk of their car for a week, and I accidentally saw it when we were leaving Old Navy which started a whole “I don’t believe this!” discourse in the mall parking lot.
Moral of the story just talk to your kids instead of spying and lying, because they know and it won’t work!
Scamming the customer because they don’t know any better, nice
People are quick to judge without considering the circumstances. Wasn’t the customer’s attitude equally wrong? Aren’t you implying that the service person should have let her bully him?
No, they should have told them to get lost.
yes the customer was out of line, that’s not an excuse to stoop to their level.
She was an asshole who wanted me to redo work for free because she believed her son over someone who actually knew what they were doing, and after tens of minutes of wrangling I just went “fuck it” and obliged her request to sanitize the peripherals. The sum wasn’t all that big to begin with, so it’s not like she was on the hook for hundreds of euros – probably got a 50€ bill instead of a 20€ one. Not knowing any better obviously wasn’t the problem here, but if that’s your takeaway then I really don’t know what to tell you.
So yes, I did it.
No, I’m not sorry.
Yes, I’d do it again.
She was rude ans annoying, but I still don’t like that you took advantage of her.
You’ve never worked retail have you
I have, actually.
A scam is despiccable in my book, no matter how deserving the victim.what scam? the customer wanted them to work on their computer, so they did, and charged the customer accordingly.
they lied to the customer and charged for work they didn’t do
what lie? they told the customer the truth from the beginning, and still agreed to the customer’s demands to work on the problem. they agreed to remove all viruses from the peripherals, which they did, because the peripherals were returned to the customer at the end virus-free.
Removing is an action, not an end result. Nothing was removed.
The son scammed her. He told her she needed to disinfect peripherals. The tech is just allowing that to happen and charging a not listening to the tech fee.
The tech is just allowing that to happen
Yes, the tech, who is also in a position of trust on the matter, is therefore part of said scam. Twist it all you want, the tech lied and benefited.
I have a similar one! I did house calls. I got called out on a warranty call, someone said a coworker of mine didn’t fix the problem. I look in the notes and the coworker says he did a standard virus removal, suggested virus protection but was turned down.
I get there and sure enough it’s riddled with viruses again. Coworker was legit, notes all in order, I tell the client that this isn’t a warranty issue, the work was done, and it has now been reinfected and will need another removal. He seems fine with this, but his wife flips out and demands I prove it got reinfected.
I suggest that we can check the web history. Since it was popping up ads, we’d see when the pop-ups started, and more importantly we’d see if they had stopped after coworker left. Guy says that’s unnecessary, it definitely got reinfected, and this time he’ll buy an antivirus. Wife is having none of it, says go ahead and check and I’ll see the problem was never fixed. I ask if they’re sure, guy kind of resignedly says to do it.
I’m not one to kink shame, but when all the trans porn site titles came up, the dude was clearly mortified. I didn’t get very far into trying to figure out if I can prove it’s related before the wife says “just fix the damn thing” and stormed out. I hope it wasn’t too bad for him, she seemed a bit difficult to deal with.
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