• zephyreks@programming.dev
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    1 year ago

    Sanctions haven’t worked before, why would it work now?

    America’s willingness to toss sanctions around willy-nilly is single-handedly destroying globalism and creating a multipolar world.

      • zephyreks@programming.dev
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        1 year ago

        That must be why SMIC just showed 7nm capability years ahead of when people expected it. That must be why Russia is projecting GDP growth this year and Russia’s manufacturing PMI is showing expansion while most other countries are showing contraction.

        Who do you think you’re convincing with this?

        • severien@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          That must be why SMIC just showed 7nm capability years ahead of when people expected it.

          Nah, it was expected all the way since SMIC bought 7nm lithography machines from ASML. It will be more interesting to watch when they start building their own lithography machines since their current stock will not scale (and will eventually break down without spare parts).

          That must be why Russia is projecting GDP growth this year and Russia’s manufacturing

          Yeah, according to Rosstat :-)

          Who do you think you’re convincing with this?

          I’m not trying to convince anybody, I’m fine with the current sanction course. But it’s kinda funny to watch the Russian / tankie desperate “sanctions don’t work, so … you know there’s no sense in continuing them, so … you should lift them.”

      • zephyreks@programming.dev
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        1 year ago

        The globalization of the economy has been the single greatest contributor to world peace since the second world war.

        • Blake [he/him]@feddit.uk
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          1 year ago

          People love to make this claim but it’s kind of impossible to prove. I could just as easily say that the Second World War itself resulted in a distaste for war, or that innovations in computers and electronics contributed to world peace. There’s just correlations, but it’s just kind of “vibes” - “oh they wouldn’t go to war because they rely on eachothers trade!” as if historically nations didn’t also have trade. Like, Venice was notoriously the trade hub of Europe in the Middle Ages and it still got invaded a whole bunch.

          • zephyreks@programming.dev
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            1 year ago

            Venice didn’t really have domestic technologies that everyone else relied on and that couldn’t be easily replaced because it costs the GDP of a medium-sized country to even develop.

            • Blake [he/him]@feddit.uk
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              1 year ago

              So what you’re talking about isn’t really globalism, but technological supremacy? Globalism is just about supply chains being spread across the globe. When I pointed out that nations connected with large supply chains still got invaded you moved the goalposts to be about technology.

              The fact is that I don’t think there really is any domestic technology that everyone relies on which only has one source - high tech industries such as semiconductor electronics, aerospace engineering, biomedical engineering, etc. are researched, designed and manufactured all over the world. Yes, there are certain countries which have a lot more research in one area than others, or which manufacture a lot more than others, but it’s not as if China, Russia, the USA, Israel, Europe, etc. would be incapable of research, design and manufacturing if those other powers just suddenly ceased to exist.

              The Roman Empire had technology that was decades ahead of their contemporaries and that didn’t seem to help them keep the peace - but something else did - an emperor who valued peace and saw it as the goal of the Roman Empire. After the death of Marcus Aurelius, Pax Romana went into decline. It wasn’t technology, or trade, or even military strength which kept the peace - it was a desire for peace, and the people who worked to achieve it.

                  • zephyreks@programming.dev
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                    1 year ago

                    So you’re completely ignoring the value-add industries that, due to globalization, other countries haven’t needed to develop and have thus become dependent on a few key sources?

                    Globalization only works because countries don’t feel the need to develop key domestic industries. That was broken the minute the US used economic sanctions solely to hamper China’s economic development because “oh no they’re going to become more powerful than us!”

          • zephyreks@programming.dev
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            1 year ago

            The US has shown that they’re willing to weaponize their position in the West to block development of technology by key rivals like Russia, China, and India. The dependence that these powers had on Western technology is a key motivator against war… But today? If the US can unilaterally restrict access anyway, what’s the motivation?

            • Kes@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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              1 year ago

              The dependence they had on Western technology was a key motivator against war precisely because the US can unilaterally restrict access to their tech. Going to war means losing US tech, and Russia decided that war was worth losing US tech

              • zephyreks@programming.dev
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                1 year ago

                Except the US was already demonstrating their willingness to restrict access to tech. We saw that in China when the US restricted access to semiconductors and semiconductor equipment because of the domestic issue in Xinjiang.

            • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              Wars are very costly, and wars between nuclear superpowers would be world ending. US and USSR had no trade to speak of and didn’t go to war for these reasons.