Netflix, once a pioneer of ad-free viewing that offered a break from traditional TV norms, is now contemplating launching free ad-supported versions of its service in markets like Europe and Asia, Bloomberg reported.
The plans to offer a free ad-supported tier, albeit in select markets, suggests that pivot towards monetizing user data, in other words — making users and not the extensive library of award-winning shows a product, might be well in the pipeline.
the ads are minimally intrusive — that is, highly relevant and engaging — they should not detract from the overall user experience
In what universe do ads, no matter how “relevant and engaging”, ever not detract from the overall experience?
I’ve been watching Monk recently, without ads, and it’s very interesting how television shows used to be written and edited for commercials. It’s dead obvious where the commercials used to be, and even that detracts from the overall experience.
Some shows we’ve watched spend their time “recapping” after the 'ad breaks", playing same scenes we just saw. Drives me nuts, wastes my time and feels so dated.
Monk doesn’t go that far, and it’s still obvious. “Here’s a joke before commercial!” Pause. Fade back in to a new scene. Pause. “Here’s a little cliffhanger before commercial!” Pause. Fade back in to a new scene. Pause.
At this point if I’m ever responsible for making a tv show it will have obvious places for commercials to go just because I don’t want them butchering it.
Good luck, if you ever watch any of the free TV apps like freevee they will just hard cut in a commercial, sometimes in the middle of a sentence. Then they have the old places where a commercial was in the OG broadcast and it just fades to black and back. It’s really jarring to watch.
This is why we can’t have nice things.
I always thought it would be a nice addition to piracy for a release group to edit a version of shows that cuts the recaps and makes a more unified episode. I would totally only ever download their releases.
Mythbusters streamlined is like that. A bit rough on some cuts imo, but overall just cuts the fluff.
Mythbusters is 50% recap, that sounds so much more enjoyable to watch. Where would I find that?
It’s on reddit going back quite a few years, with a recent tracker update:
https://www.reddit.com/r/smyths/comments/8gix4w/streamlined_mythbusters_complete_may_2018_update/
I was about to mention this example. It’s everything you love about mythbusters (doing crazy science experiments), without everything you hate about mythbusters and what made me stop watching. No more constant hopping over between the different myths per episode, or tons of recaps.
Just myths, one at a time, no bullshit.
Myth busters had to be the worst offender in that realm. “here a 2 minute recap of that things you just saw 5 minutes ago.”
My thoughts exactly when i was watching old seasons of Canadas worst drivers
My wife and I recently started watching that. Skipping the first 6 minutes of episodes because we don’t need to meet all the drivers again, skipping at every commercial break because I don’t need to see what’s coming up or what we just watched…
Great show, but binging seasons gets rough
Maybe the vid angel people can get on that.
That was a trope of real tv shows especially , and also a way to fill time with less filmed content i.e cost cutting. Often you’d see many shots 5-7 times throughout the show. Opening montage , before ad tease, after ad recap, thr event itself, end of show montage summary etc. Also drives me nuts. Even back when ads were between. “Yes I know what happened two minutes ago!”. And then there were so many shows you could tell the edit project file was a template and they just replaced the footage. Same exact structure every episode.
Anime was bad for this too, especially the dubbed kind and one piece.
Reality tv shows took this the farthest its so bad
One of my favorite skits for that: https://youtu.be/7MFtl2XXnUc?si=i6He7wklxdSt8gpn
Nail, head
I was eagerly anticipating “I’m looking for a gift for my aunt”.
Ahhh, I suffer from this with old animes!
I’m gonna be king of the recaps! 👒
God I’ve been watching through Bleach and it’s like this. Each 22 minute episode is really only about 12 minutes long with the rest being a 5 minute recap of the previous episode, the intro, credits, and post credit filler.
Edit: a tangent of this would be watching a sitcom with the laugh track removed. Imagine seeing the actors awkwardly standing there in silence in the middle of their dialog where the laugh track would normally be inserted.
A funny second tangent is the musicless music videos on YouTube. Definitely worth checking out for a laugh.
Same, been watching Dead Like Me and Xena: Warrior Princess and it’s pretty distracting when it happens.
we were not the customers… we were the product lol…
yeah it hurts, so let’s stop allowing ads into our lives as much as possible…
the fact that netflix wants to offer it for free is telling what their core business is turning into…
I’m not streaming it, it’s on my media server, so there are no ads. I don’t pay for any services except Shudder because it’s still cheap and niche.
good, same here but we are a very small minority…
half the population still pays for cable haha
Their core business is lost, IMO. Once they stopped offering movies in favor of their own content and tv shows, thats when it was game over for me.
I agree I stopped with them mid 2010s… their OG content is just low quality engagement slop. I prefer spytube for that.
Futurama had some jokes based around the commercial break times.
The Simpsons as well.
Its painfully obvious when watching Star Trek TNG.
music swells, fade to black
I don’t know if this was true in all markets, but in the Indiana market when we were kids, TNG would play a sort of mini-version of the theme when it went to break and now when a show or movie fades out or it’s an old show and goes to break, I annoy my wife by singing it.
I don’t mind those breaks… It feels like going to the next chapter in a book.
But actual ads, yea, not for a service that costs.
Though this whole thing is funny - they collect even more user data than they did with cable or broadcast, and now want to show you ads too.
Can’t wait to finish my media server setup.
I don’t mind when it’s an obvious break followed by a new scene. I do mind when the break is in the middle of a scene and they essentially replay the last thirty seconds before continuing the story. It just feels very disjointed and dated.
Ah, yea, that seems more like something that wasn’t intended for breaks.
Definitely disruptive.
There are also shows that based jokes around the fact that they were going to or just came back from a commercial break and now you don’t have those in those shows. And now, I guess, they’ll go back to editing shows for ads.
What a weird modern landscape we’ve made for ourselves.
What a weird modern landscape we’ve made for ourselves.
Every generation ever. Well, maybe since inventing the wheel
modern shows frame things differently to account for people watching on tiny phone screens and we might be bothered a few years down the line when we get holodecks or
mind controlimplantsIt’s even worse if you’re watching competition shows:
“Coming up: things you’re going to see in the next 5 minutes.”
“Welcome back: recap of what you’ve seen in the last 5 minutes.”
I hate ads, but sometimes prime puts 2 minutes of ads at the beginning of a show or a movie and then no ads, I’m ok-ish with this, much better than imdb or tubi that play the same commercial every 15 minutes
If I start a stream and it shows that it will have several breaks I stop it and get it from the high seas
I would be fine with that if it was free and didn’t reply the ads if I stop and resume.
If I am paying money, then ads are unacceptable.
Included with this, promoting one of your shows before the one your watching starts should be considered an ad and not happen on ad free tiers, looking at you HBO and Paramount.
I wish they wouldn’t do that. If i have to hear about Southern New Hampshire University again I’m gonna hurt somebody.
If I agree to free thing and have to watch ads, aight fine.
But at least make them different man, i hate that they play the same one over and over again. It does not make me want to buy your product.
I was sitting in a diner the other day and one of their TV’s was apparently, for lack of a better word, tuned to that Samsung TV Plus service. I watched it play the same Kia ad four times, back to back. Not in separate commercial breaks. All in one commercial break where the same ad was played four times consecutively.
Just like you, I have to say they found no success in making me want to buy a Kia.
But you are telling us about kia, so maybe it did work
Quick! Name a cheap import!
Nissan! Shoot, I did it wrong…
Hyundai?
Engaging is the last thing I want from an ad
You engage with the skip button
Especially in shows not edited for commercials. They just throw them in the middle somewhere so the show gets cut mid-sentence. It’s ridiculous. If you want to show me ads after that episode, then fine. But killing the entire pacing of the show for your ads in a service people are paying for already? that’s just infuriating.
Fuck, these days even in shows that are edited for commercials, they’ll ignore those breaks and just put ads wherever they feel like it
Those ads that are now inserted during the program on us tv shows are annoying as fuck Banner at the bottom or side… Goddamnit.
When is interrupting my viewing experience to show me an ad ever actually relevant?
Cerveza Cristal?
Always does but some implementations are better than others and bills still need to get paid. Network TV can’t force you to watch ads before beginning your program, but streaming can. I’m irritated that Prime has ads even though I pay for it but at least the way they handle them (only before the program starts) is acceptable to me. Interrupting a program to show ads the way YouTube does is horrible customer experience. What’s crazy to me is the way network tv shows have gone from 22 minutes in a 30 minute block to 17-19 minutes.
Honest answer? Kids toys ads. The kids love the ads more than the show sometimes.
It sucks for parents though. Gets expensive.
That shit should be illegal.
…isn’t it in a lot of countries? I read it was kind of a big deal when this started in the US.
Maybe some old-school 60s’ “episode is financed by <something very good soap>” text in the beginning?
Or product placement, if the events (EDIT: on the screen) unfold in our time.
When the content isn’t that good to begin with?
Perhaps to people who are used to watching ad infested cable and don’t pay for ad-free streaming. So it’s not that ads aren’t detracting from the experience but that some folks are used to it. Getting those folks is growth. Number go up.
I just wish they could bundle all the subscriptions into packages or bundles and I could watch the shows at pre-determined times.
Stop it. Executives don’t understand sarcasm and you’ve doomed us all!
It’s okay.
Executives got were they are by being smart and making good decisions, not by listening to idiots on the internet.
They could even provide an electronic box (for a nominal fee, or course) that shows me a menu of all the shows and movies that are available and what times they are going to play. That way I wouldn’t have to search through a bunch of streaming services. It could all just be in one place.
Why not sell a book that has that information at grocery stores?
Maybe they could add some kind of auto scrolling view that informs what is playing at those times? That’d be handy, sometimes I can’t find anything to watch.
I’d probably end up watching that more than I watch the shows.
Cool thing about this is they could assemble these bundles into parallel live streams we could simply flick between to find what we prefer to watch. If they run into a problem of people flicking away when ads run then just align the ads to run at the same time on each “channel” if I can call them that ?
They could bundle in my idea of having a telephone in your house, not a cell phone more like a land phone
Tech bros reinvent broadcast TV.
Told people this years ago when pewdie pie became a millionaire selling ads. Like that was the time to wake up and hate every single one of these content creators for selling out and making the internet the hellscape this is. But no we Revere and emulate these people.
This is a bit unnecessarily tough on independent content creators… what exactly do you expect them to do? Make no money from their content? How would they be able to make a living?
I’m a big fan of Patreon.
Sure, Patreon is great, but Patreon alone is not enough for most creators to make a living, considering how hard it is to get people to commit to monthly subscriptions.
But why do they need to make a living creating content.
We should go back to hobbyist sharing videos of their hobby and interest for the love of it instead of a guy trying to make money by jumping into trendy hobbies and creating bland generic content until the algorithm picks them.
It would reduce so much noise online and the stuff we would be left with would be people who have the best content. It would eliminate the drama and toxic crap for views.
There are certainly hobbyists making good content. Most of the great content is from people making a living off it. They have time and resources to devote to doing deep dives into subjects that hobbyists just generally don’t. The bigger problem as far as filling the internet with crap goes is all the react content and people making clips of other people’s stuff that adds nothing to it and whatever YouTube shorts are supposed to be.
Patreon alone is not enough for most creators to make a living
I’ve seen a number of content creators argue otherwise. From the “Hello from the Magic Tavern” sketch comedy group to the “Scenes from the Multiverse” Cartoonist to the various musicians cranking out indie tunes on Bandcamp, the refrain I consistently here is that direct patronage offers significantly better returns than ad-supported payments on bigger media platforms.
Indie creators generally have an easier time of securing monthly subscriptions because they’re more boutique and have closer connections to the audience. And you don’t need an enormous audience to bring in a reliable income. While YouTubers need to get into the hundreds of thousands of subscribers to see any kind of productive ROI, Patreon artists can justify the expense of their work on an audience in the hundreds. They can go entirely indie with an audience in the thousands.
Most creators can’t afford to go fully indie, but the margins are so much better relative to the audience size with direct payments. Even just $2/viewer/episode pays vastly more than what a streaming service offers.
Would you put blame on doctors for contributing to the opioid?
I see it the same. Every one bares responsibility. And even though a big chunk is on the pharma and media companies. There is still the pusher
For me, it depends on what they’re promoting. If it’s some crappy mobile game or crypto, I’m out. But I’m fine with the usual shit like energy drinks or VPNs. Like, those things usually have a serious business behind them, even if they might be useless for the vast majority of viewers.
Yep. I don’t hate youtubers for doing ads. Everyone needs to make money. Just skip the ads.
Except for Ryan George because he actually makes his funny as fuck.
If Netflix ads were just energy drinks and VPN then you’re cool with them adding these tiers?
Honest to god question. How many hours a day are you OK being spent on being sold something. What is your ratio of content to ads.
That’s your time by the way. My full belief is anyone trying to sell me anything needs to pay me. Not a content creator. That’s my time I barely have any of it to give so when 1 hr out of 3 hrs I got to relax is spent being sold shit I’m pretty pissed.
And it isn’t like I can. Just opt to enjoy ad free content creators. They no longer exist because the ones that monetized it. That’s the part I hate most.
It’s a little different with Netflix, because of what they started out as. With Youtube, I expected to be advertised to from the beginning, you know? I pay for Youtube Premium and use Sponsor Block to support the creators I watch while having a mostly ad free experience. Also, I just trust most of the creators that I watch to have my best interest in mind in terms of what they advertise.
But for Netflix, their whole thing from the beginning was that they were better TV. That’s how they sold it to me. Now they’re slowly losing their point. So I’d definitely not be alright with it if they started showing me ads on top of my subscription fee. Same with Prime Video, because I know they’re experimenting with that.
That’s exactly what I’m saying with it too. All of this started out as a place to share and collaborate and to reject the stuff that made all other industries rotten.
We had something amazing and we let it rot on our watch and that’s something we can’t ever fix but I don’t think we should forget how badly we fucked up. And how we fucked up should be remembered in case we ever get any new frontier.
YouTube never had ads. We all just shared videos. It was a big deal every time they brought it in. Pewdie pi made a fortune and it was all over from there.
Ill never support any of these content creators or buy any subscriptions. None of this should have been monetized. Advertising is out of control and it was already bad before the internet. Some of us are experiencing an ad 24/7 a day now.
Would you put blame on doctors for contributing to the opioid?
I’m gonna assume by “contributing to the opioid” you mean over-prescribing pain medication for the commission? If so, that comparison is so far-fetched that it’s completely meaningless. You’re really going to compare that with independent creators having skippable ad reads that have to be clearly marked as such on content you get for free?
Mind explains what is far fetched about it?
There was an opioid crisis where drug makers sold pills to the public that the public did not need and they used doctors to sell them.
There is an advertising epidemic where industry is working to push ads into every space we listen, look or experience and they are using content creators to justify it
Both have a large well funded industry. Both require an interface between public and the industry to sell their product. Both push products to people who don’t need them by using these interfaces to bullshit, lie and leverage their authority to sell the product. And in one case we blame the interface in the other we say " they aren’t responsible they are just making money" so why?
Who reveres and emulates PewDiePie lol
Too fucking many. But replace him with any of them. Speed, H2, Moist, donkey something. We use to have to walk uphill both ways in the snow to see content.
Like that was the time to wake up and hate every single one of these content creators for selling out
And then what? Stop consuming their content?
Sure, or accept that you participating in that industry will always lead to this stuff.
What do people want here. In what world do you think you can separate the two things. Monetizing content through ads and marketing and a world where ads and marketing are not capitalized on.
We all had to stop this decades ago when it was a tiny little part of the internet. You can’t kill it once its tendrils are in every corner its grown into Fafnir
You all have to get better at listening to the crazy ranting of random strangers with hair triggers and obsess over things you don’t care about. Otherwise the future is bleek
What’s even crazier is kids today will never realize the freedom that the first few decades of the internet was when the topic of information scarcity was supposed to end.
We were all so against the idea that capitalist and opportunistic people could artificially create scarcity to make us all pay more. They did it through monopolies on industry’s that choked out smaller competitors. The internet was a new frontier that was supposed to reject that. We could digitally copy and share everything. Hero’s shot up and built all kinds of amazing tools and things. Then it got popular and we recreated the same scarcity issues within decades. Everything trapped behind walls and monetized. Instead of open courseware at Berkeley we favored monthly subscriptions to udemy.
This is the average 6 year olds dream right now. A life where they can emulate a NASCAR fender and live that twitch life just like their heroes Pewdie and Moist and whatever else. Those kids grow up with that mentality and end up shaping a new generation pulling away from what all this could have been.
Yes
With my NAS, plex and Usenet I reinvented streaming. It’s awesome.
Im the one that was paying for Netflix for my family, but the password crack down motivated me to learn how to build a server and go full arrs. They had a good thing going, but now that $26 a month will be used to buy hdds.
What I fears is that its a matter of time before entertainment industry figures out a way to stop those services. I’ve even begun to see discussions that open source may be struggling to remain relevant. Whose taking over for the power houses from early days. So much talent out there. But I really worry the community will shrink over time because we all raiser a generation on the concept of monetization rather than open collaboration. I look out on the internet and the loudest voices are artists and content creators. Both groups who push the fuck you pay me mentality that I believe was not what we all had originally on the internet and it makes me so worried to think how that will only grow if there is no push back.
There’s no better ad for piracy than the greed of corporations. Don’t let ads shit in your head. They disrespect you, you disrespect them.
I have hardware dedicated to blocking ads on my home network.
That will only go so far unfortunately. And network level ad blocking won’t protect you from their ads if they’re served from the same servers the content is.
uBlock will manage :)
Not when they are part of the same stream
And not when your client is a Netflix app on your smart tv.
Ublock is not network level ad blocking.
But it helps in addition for the annoying stuff that is not possible to filter on the network.
Ok
What hardware do you use? I have a pihole. Unfortunately it doesn’t block ads on Youtube except in the web browser.
For a long time my pihole was able to do it with some regex entries, but Google was pretty persistent about not letting that work, so for Android I just started doing Revanced.
Like you said, the web browser still blocks fine.
“People are taking the piss out of you every day. They butt into your life, take a cheap shot at you and then disappear. They leer at you from tall buildings and make you feel small. They make flippant comments from buses that imply you’re not sexy enough and that all the fun is happening somewhere else. They are on TV making your girlfriend feel inadequate. They have access to the most sophisticated technology the world has ever seen and they bully you with it. They are The Advertisers and they are laughing at you. You, however, are forbidden to touch them. Trademarks, intellectual property rights and copyright law mean advertisers can say what they like wherever they like with total impunity. Fuck that. Any advert in a public space that gives you no choice whether you see it or not is yours. It’s yours to take, re-arrange and re-use. You can do whatever you like with it. Asking for permission is like asking to keep a rock someone just threw at your head. You owe the companies nothing. Less than nothing, you especially don’t owe them any courtesy. They owe you. They have re-arranged the world to put themselves in front of you. They never asked for your permission, don’t even start asking for theirs.”
Banksy
This is step 86 in the plan. Step 87 is make people pay for the previously free service
Didn’t they already had a paid and with ads tier?
Yeah but now the roped in new suckers that didn’t know they need the product and the price is now 10 per month
Growth hacking. Shake loose more market share with the “FREE!!” version and then the frog boil
“The enshittifucation will continue until profits improve.” --CEOs of Publicly Traded Companies
I’ll take “Organizations that made it to the top by doing something different, only to fall under leadership that doesn’t understand what made them successful and descend into ruins” for 200, Alex.
Seriously, Jeopardy team - this is a rich category:
- Netflix advertisements.
- Zoom mandates staff return to offices.
- Microsoft forgets what the “P” in “PC” stands for.
- Toys R Us implements a shitty holiday gift returns policy.
- Sears decides to sacrifice reputation for quarterly stock price gains.
- Walgreens decides bottom-of-the-barrel incompetent pharmacists can uphold their “get it all done in one visit” secret sauce.
- Radio Shack decides that once-every-two-years cellphone contract sales are the future for holding passionate electronics hobbyists’ loyalty.
Netflix can’t do what got them to the top.
Fuck everything about the changes they’ve made for the last several years, but they were always going to hit a wall when content owners put their content on their own platforms.
Netflix can’t do what got them to the top.
They can’t grow that way but they could easily hold on and remain profitable, popular and successful.
They were well on their way to enjoying “Kleenex” or “Oreo” stable market success, but their leadership and shareholders apparently aren’t satisfied with winning.
The entire source of their growth was “you can get almost anything you want to watch for one low monthly cost”. They no longer have rights to any of that content, and for most of it didn’t even get an opportunity to make a bid.
It’s the equivalent of Oreo shipping 3 Oreos in a big box for 3x the price. But also they had to change their recipe because they didn’t own the old one.
Oreo was originally a ripoff so it makes sense.
Ewweew hydrox
Yeah. Netflix got really lucky with streaming for as long as they did and they knew it. Cable and broadcast subsidized their content and they were able to lease it for pennies on the dollar.
Of course, people don’t want to admit that the subsidy for their content is gone and they are pissed about rising costs.
I don’t care about the why. It was worth it.
Now it’s not worth it.
Then cancel and move on.
The way that people talk about it here, a streaming service raising rates is the equivalent of a significant other dumping them.
I did. A long time ago.
People are allowed to recognize a dogshit excuse for a product is a bad product.
I worked at Radio Shack in 2012 for a few months and was told by my boss that if a customer wasn’t there to buy a cell phone, be as little help to them as possible.
That’s heartbreaking. Radio Shack was so fun, while it lasted.
It’s a shame they went under during the rise of the maker movement. What an asset they could have been. I remember they started carrying arduino near the end and thought somebody must have tried to reach for their roots. Too little, too late.
I had quit in October of that year because I found a much better job that I ended up working at for 11 years. In those few short months though it was wild all the things that happened in that store. That store was in a mall and it didn’t last a year after I quit. They had a going out of business sale and I got a ton of arduino stuff for 75% off.
It’s almost like all these CEOs and MBAs are just shooting in the dark because of the $$$ in their eyes, but the fact remains that the market is no longer responding favorably to their absolute need for year-over-year growth.
It isn’t? You might be looking at a different market.
“Free ad-supported” makes you no different than a hundred other garbage-tier streaming services.
And in 2 years they’ll move to 3 tiers, free with ads, paid with slightly less ads and even more expensive than before but no ads…
And eventually they’ll just pull the no ads version altogether.
Jokes on them - all of my content is both free and ad free. 🏴☠️🦜🏴☠️
Just like cable!
If they aren’t going to charge for access otherwise then I don’t think being ad supported is such a bad thing. Much more honest than subscription pricing and ads in my opinion.
yeah, imo it’s either ads or paid. not both. both is scummy
Streaming is just cable
There is one benefit, at least for now. You aren’t locked into long term contracts like cable has/had.
Imo that’s pretty much the only benefit these days. But I’m also waiting for those 1 year, 2 year, etc “deals” where they offer $1/mo off or something
Don’t they already do that? I swear I saw a streaming service that offered 20% off the price if you agreed to pay 2 years in advance or something like that. That is already a thing on SaaS subscriptions.
I know Hulu has an annual billing option where they won’t prorate your bill if you cancel mid term, but I don’t know if there are any that just flat out won’t let you cancel.
I expect to see this soon as a way of combatting people who join one for a month or two, binge, then switch to another provider.
It might not come in the form of contracts at first, maybe they will just jack up the price of month to month high enough that people will voluntarily buy into a contract or yearly pre-purchase.
Trust me, there is always a way to make more money if you’re OK with being anti-consumer. It’s just a matter of time.
Not until we’re having to sit through upwards of 20 minutes on ads per “1 hour” episode
The difference is that my ad blocker is quick and painless to set up, where TiVo involved some capital and planning.
Didn’t some cable companies get all butthurt that you could fast forward through the recorded commercials?
For now. YouTube is already starting to dedicate serious resources to anti ad blocking. I’m sure other streaming services aren’t that far behind.
I remember when I had to set my VCR to record a program I wanted to watch; if YouTube gets that bad, I’ll just do the same thing; pre-record the video stream and skip the commercials.
but more more inconvenient since now you have about ten different apps instead of everything in the same place.
The advertising ouroboros continues to devour itself
They will still be selling user data whether you opt for the ad supported tier or not, so get used to that.
If they haven’t been doing so for at least a decade, I’m sure their shareholders will want to know why not.
My Plex share doesn’t care lol
The way the industry is pulling the screws tighter and tighter is just ugly to watch, and it’s hard not to be caught out.
Isn’t Plex also slowly going down the shitter? Like, with their social features and stuff?
They do keep adding garbage that nobody wants, but the core product still works great. I plan on getting a jellyfin docker running in parallel though so I’m prepared in the event they piss me off too much.
switch to jellyfin
That’s why I’ve been using Emby. Works just fine for free.
I won’t support any streaming service that has a sub+ad tier. Ads with no sub or sub no ads, anything else is incredibly greedy and the same as cable TV.
